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Post by mvp on Apr 7, 2014 19:08:01 GMT
I think a lot of us are jumping the gun on this discussion and I'm mainly referring to noncombat skills. Yes, it would be nice to have a purely noncombat character. However, the rants are stemming from not being able to access the desired areas or leveling up that character or exploiting the system. You're assuming access to areas will be controlled by level First of all, It has already been said that the exploration of the world might not be restricted by level. This means if FrozenSoviet chooses to not have noncombat skills level you up (which it is my personal belief that they should not) then you will still have full access to the world although nobody has discussed aggressive mobs attacking low level players. Anyways, give the team some slack. There are still a lot of factors that need to be established before we can jump to the conclusion of allowing noncombat players to sit at one town. Now on another note, why would you only want a noncombat character? Do you not like PinkCrown's story? Level up a combat character and do quests And give life to PvP and stop with the plans to only do noncombat. Now, by denying noncombat characters you allow players to gather materials and sell them through the market thus encouraging trade. If you just have every player gather their own materials and make their own stuff, then anything you noncombat players make will be useless and nobody will buy it. So don't complain if this is how the game ends up. Now this exploiting thing with getting low level users to attack high level monsters: the experience system was not announced. Maybe you have to kill the monster to get the experience. Groups were discussed not too far back where killing a monster would give experience to the group. This system seems unlikely due to the fact that many users will be picking up more than one combat skill and would like to be rewarded for the ones they used during the fight. Matter of fact, I actually like this system. this means I can complete quests in low level areas and not worry about not gaining the experience I need. Despite this exploit everybody seems concerned about, it's nothing to fear. By having an account with 100 healing (as an example) this does not make them useful or overpowered. There are accounts with more skills than that so why should a (in wow terms) "twink" be feared? We all have to take a step back and not fear this new system. Overtime, it will be developed with the criticism it has received here. Hopefully on release we will see perfection.
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Post by Archangel on Apr 7, 2014 19:18:58 GMT
I'm glad it's not just me that doesn't comprehend having a non-combat character only. I don't understand it either.
I love the new concept of the system. Just some things I was addressing, food for thought if you will.
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Post by FrozenSoviet on Apr 7, 2014 19:32:08 GMT
I plan to have combat experience rewarded on monster kill, and you would be able to choose which percentage of the xp went to what combat skill beforehand. (lets say you want 90% xp to go to Magic, and 10% to Defense).
Right now, I really want to limit the discussion to classes in particular as a lot of this stuff like distribution of combat xp, etc, isn't even figured out yet officially, just ideas I have in my head. Getting a bit off the intended topic.
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kidokica
Rock Crab
SAO ALO GGO
Posts: 51
FO Level Status: Ascended
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Post by kidokica on Apr 7, 2014 19:37:38 GMT
Like the system very much guys
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Post by iamallama on Apr 7, 2014 20:39:42 GMT
Nothing ever follows the plan the designers intend. People will always find a way. I believe the thought process behind this system would be that for your first few skills you would pick attack/defense/heal/{insert other combat useful skill here} at first and once you get comfortable with attack/defense pick a "job" type skill (or two) to level up with your character. Not necessarily to have an account that is 100% non-combat. There are also many ways to limit skills and abilities. Maybe you are allowed to pick a smithing skill that you level to 100 while still character level 1. Maybe there are some high level recipes that you have to meet a character requirement to learn. Maybe there are some recipes have ability requirements. Maybe there are some abilities that require more than one skill. Maybe there are some recipes/abilities you can't get from anywhere but a high level boss. I don't know yet. There are thousands of factors that could affect this and while we do have some basic ideas, we don't know everything yet. Nor do we know what is going to be fun and that is what we need to find out.
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fredonia
Rock Crab
Posts: 76
FO Level Status: Ascended
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Post by fredonia on Apr 7, 2014 21:03:48 GMT
Now on another note, why would you only want a noncombat character? Do you not like PinkCrown's story? I don't see why a story would be impossible to write for crafting characters. I would give serious praise to anyone who could write a good storyline for my alternate character so he might not have to merch all day. You really wouldn't want to embark on an adventure of coin and intrigue? Traveling the world as Crafty Craftson; securing the world's most exotic ingredients and materials to continue your economic war with rival NPC merchants? Dude, it would sound pretty fun to me.
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Post by mvp on Apr 7, 2014 21:06:35 GMT
Let's finish this system now. like right now. Let's go! {Anybody else pumped?} Need ideas FrozenSoviet? I got loads lets go. Perfect the system! we'll work through the night and be done somewhere tomorrow. Then well draw up a map to the moon! Just release the game I can't wait anymore. seriously, me in real life right now: meirl D:
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Post by PinkCrown on Apr 7, 2014 21:14:10 GMT
Now on another note, why would you only want a noncombat character? Do you not like PinkCrown's story? I don't see why a story would be impossible to write for crafting characters. I would give serious praise to anyone who could write a good storyline for my alternate character so he might not have to merch all day. You really wouldn't want to embark on an adventure of coin and intrigue? Traveling the world as Crafty Craftson; securing the world's most exotic ingredients and materials to continue your economic war with rival NPC merchants? Dude, it would sound pretty fun to me. Because doubling the work for people that are doing something part-time is a pretty big ask? Never mind that we're talking non-combat skills, not just 'crafting' skills. The storyline that could work for crafting (assuming it's even going to be as general as crafting and not say 'armour crafting' ' weapon crafting') wouldn't be able to stay the same for say....fishing. Or enchanting. Or growing a beard. That sounds like a fun idea for a game purely devoted to that, but it's not what we're going for. Never mind that I'm sure it'll be possible to at least weakly prod a monster if you go for non-combat skills. As an aside, I love Recettear as a game where you run a shop, where you can buy and sell, but also go on little rpg dungeon trips and use various materials to craft more items to sell. ~To counter the above, depending on how skills etc work, I'm sure there will be various sideline quest stories for different skills, or something similar.
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kgykjhg
Rock Crab
Posts: 31
FO Level Status: Ascended
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Post by kgykjhg on Apr 8, 2014 0:04:33 GMT
sounds like a great class system. can't wait to see it come to life! some concerns - it's going to take a lot of effort to implement this "class" system. it's going to need a LOT of balancing to make sure every one is picking the same skill combination because its better than the rest. Each skill is going to have to make an equal impact. one way to do this is by adding many levels of depth (something i'd say FO was lacking). for example, why would i become a fisherman if mining yields double the profits? well if the game, like FO, was centered around the market then there would be no point to being a fisherman. well, let's say the fishing skill gives you the ability to cross water in a fishing boat. or maybe someone fishing may find a piece of rare loot that was dropped in the lake they're fishing at or even a long lost artifact that starts a new quest line, while a miner finds a rare gem in the vein they are mining. this adds dynamics to the skill trees, which like i said, is going to take a lot of time and thought to implement. all this is of course assuming there is going to be a trading system, or market system. i know of some MMOs that don't have a trading OR marketing system like AQW. however, i sense there will be one in this mmo? it would make sense because how is a fisherman going to get steel ores if he can't mine? also, will different characters have access to the same items/currency of the account. because like mvp said, why wouldn't i just create a separate merchant character to make me money and a fighter character to slay bosses and mobs etc. that being said, would a fighter class even be worth creating if a merchant can make more money than a fighter. this goes back to the fisherman vs miner argument, where there has to be different unique rewards that goes beyond the scale of just currency. one last thing. i don't know if i've missed this somewhere else on this forum, but how will the business model be shaped? will premium currency be used for purely cosmetic cosmetic purposes, pay to win, or a currency that you can buy with real money but can be bought by other players with ingame currency similar to FO? and how will it play out in the class system. will you be able to "early purchase" slots ahead of your own level, or maybe extra ability points, because this might be seen as unfair or pay to win if there is pvp system or the likes. woops that was longer than i expected to write.
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expound
Rock Crab
R.I.P FO. Thanks s98 for the epic character gif!
Posts: 64
FO Level Status: Rebirth
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Post by expound on Apr 8, 2014 2:59:27 GMT
Wow sounds great! I like the idea of being able to make your character super unique gameplay-wise. I think in FO the most unique thing you could do with your character is changing their outfit XD
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SilentFire
Soft-Shelled Crab
Posts: 15
FO Level Status: Ascended
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Post by SilentFire on Apr 8, 2014 4:04:09 GMT
So does that mean that all non-combat skills (which I would assume aid other users) will give you experience in return? Because I would expect that if you can't fight, then you should at least be able to productively be useful to the RPG by being a basic civilian. I think this would be especially helpful when in parties, as each individual can have a different role aside from combat. One person can excavate or mine, while one person fights, and the third can do something else (like healing the combat partner or crafting/building materials). It would bring an entire new element to the team.
Also, I think that it could lead gathering resources. Maybe a woodcutting skill alongside mining and such. This would make it possible to build your own structures (houses, factories, hospitals, etc.) by having a base three or four (wood, iron, oil, and maybe something original [llama fur ]) materials needed to construct a certain building, which you could use for your own and possibly a guild benefit.
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thepro1
Soft-Shelled Crab
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Posts: 23
FO Level Status: Ascended
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Post by thepro1 on Apr 8, 2014 16:37:25 GMT
I realy liked the classes in FO.It was simple. Now i will need to create profile after profile to make a perfect skill combination. Well,i see a lot of you guys like this system so i need to get over it.
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Post by mvp on Apr 8, 2014 18:26:13 GMT
I realy liked the classes in FO.It was simple. Now i will need to create profile after profile to make a perfect skill combination. Well,i see a lot of you guys like this system so i need to get over it. Indirectly, this is what most players want. We do not want to play for 5 minutes on a simple character, max it out, then be done. We want to build different characters, try different styles, experience different feelings. This allows us to discuss at will with peers to make the best builds for situations. Especially in PvP and bosses, we will be scrambling to make builds that allow us to succeed and thrive at both. You may see me healing on one character during a raid for my guild but then putting out DPS in a PvP situation. I assure you, give it a try and you might like it a lot better than what you're reading here.
So does that mean that all non-combat skills (which I would assume aid other users) will give you experience in return? Because I would expect that if you can't fight, then you should at least be able to productively be useful to the RPG by being a basic civilian. I think this would be especially helpful when in parties, as each individual can have a different role aside from combat. One person can excavate or mine, while one person fights, and the third can do something else (like healing the combat partner or crafting/building materials). It would bring an entire new element to the team.. Noncombat skills (at least from what I've read) will in no way altar combat directly. While you could mine in a cave with monsters around, generally you should not have to designate a resource gatherer in the party. If you think of it like FO, you can mine at anytime around the map but you will not need to do that in a party. I am sure some noncombat skills will offer benefits or buffs in combat. I know mining and smithing will be paired. Mining ores then crafting them into weapons and armor. Maybe you craft attachments to armor and that gives an additional buff. Whatever the case, these skills should come in handy in one way. As far as experience, I believe FrozenSoviet has already confirmed each skill will be on a separate experience plain. Doing tasks of that profession will earn you experience.
sounds like a great class system. can't wait to see it come to life! some concerns - it's going to take a lot of effort to implement this "class" system. it's going to need a LOT of balancing to make sure every one is picking the same skill combination because its better than the rest. Each skill is going to have to make an equal impact. one way to do this is by adding many levels of depth (something i'd say FO was lacking). for example, why would i become a fisherman if mining yields double the profits? well if the game, like FO, was centered around the market then there would be no point to being a fisherman. well, let's say the fishing skill gives you the ability to cross water in a fishing boat. or maybe someone fishing may find a piece of rare loot that was dropped in the lake they're fishing at or even a long lost artifact that starts a new quest line, while a miner finds a rare gem in the vein they are mining. this adds dynamics to the skill trees, which like i said, is going to take a lot of time and thought to implement. all this is of course assuming there is going to be a trading system, or market system. i know of some MMOs that don't have a trading OR marketing system like AQW. however, i sense there will be one in this mmo? it would make sense because how is a fisherman going to get steel ores if he can't mine? also, will different characters have access to the same items/currency of the account. because like mvp said, why wouldn't i just create a separate merchant character to make me money and a fighter character to slay bosses and mobs etc. that being said, would a fighter class even be worth creating if a merchant can make more money than a fighter. this goes back to the fisherman vs miner argument, where there has to be different unique rewards that goes beyond the scale of just currency. Balance is going to be one of the biggest obstacles to overcome. Llama has already left a statement saying the team was up to the challenge though. It will be our duty as players to report back to them on what needs to be balanced. As for economic opportunities, despite getting a little offtopic, well that is for the players to decide. We forget that we make up the economy for the most part. It is supply and demand that makes up price. I can almost guarantee some professions will be more useful or profitable than others. However, if we forget about the others, the prices may raise making those better picks versus the competition. I do not believe character to character item transferring will be incorporated into the game. It might though. No promises. Finally, trading and a market has already been confirmed in a previous post. I don't think player to player trading will be available on the release but it will surely be added soon after.
I don't see why a story would be impossible to write for crafting characters. I would give serious praise to anyone who could write a good storyline for my alternate character so he might not have to merch all day. You really wouldn't want to embark on an adventure of coin and intrigue? Traveling the world as Crafty Craftson; securing the world's most exotic ingredients and materials to continue your economic war with rival NPC merchants? Dude, it would sound pretty fun to me. It's not impossible to write a story for crafting characters but it adds more of a workload to PinkCrown. The story would be so dull and boring for a crafting-only character that nobody would do it. Can you imagine going back and forth gathering materials and then just talking to people? People want action! It's just not worth the time and effort to create a storyline for noncombat characters.
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Bard
Rock Crab
Playing a Tune
Posts: 56
FO Level Status: Rebirth
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Post by Bard on Apr 8, 2014 18:31:36 GMT
OH MY GAWD
This will totally revolutionize the guild system.
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Post by iamallama on Apr 8, 2014 19:08:46 GMT
Most likely multiple characters on a single account will have separate inventories, but share the same bank when that is added.
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