Acappella
Rock Crab
Level 120
Posts: 83
FO Level Status: Ascended
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Post by Acappella on Mar 26, 2014 7:49:08 GMT
no, I'm saying unless you decide to spec in life or enough defence and regen so that it doesn't 1 hit you (1 hit is just an example for say bosses and stuff, for regular mobs it should most likely be that they deal more damage than 'average' regen or something like that) yeah and that was wrong, healers got nothing. now you will need to have healers in group and they will get xp by being in a group. Healing someone not in a group like in FO wasn't wrong, it is a great aspect to the game and created a nice and friendly environment. Now all i'm suggesting is give a little xp for it(bot preventables already mentioned). Anyone grouped gets xp. Saying that you can only heal someone if you are in that group, would create a negative effect, to what was a possitive one in FO.
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Post by mvp on Mar 26, 2014 7:58:33 GMT
If a mob can 1 hit you, then you die, unless you are saying a healer can bring you back to life minche ?!? I just think that being able to heal anyone was a really nice thing in FO, it made the place friendly. How can it be hard! FO did healing not in a group! If you cast heal on someone that needs it you get a tiny bit of xp. To avoid exploiting/botting as soon as you've cast heal, it deselects the person. Now if that person moves then the bot would have to follow them and reselect. Its not difficult! I'll be honest, I see myself as an arrogant person. Maybe you're right and I am just too hard-headed to see it. This whole conversation has stemmed from healers extracting just an ounce of experience from combat. Some are overthinking it, going outside the box. Nothing wrong with that except outside the box, the picture isn't as in focus. minche went a little hard on the hyperbole there. 1-hit, well in a hard boss situation with an ungeared team who needs to coordinate cooldowns in order to successfully overcome the challenge but that is beside the point. 1-hit was, in my understanding, a summarization of a "difficult" mob. He suggested adding monsters that could be grinded for a slightly increased experience gain and it would be in the best interest of those attracted to grinding these monsters, to get a healer. Nobody is dismissing the idea of being able to heal anybody anywhere. Healing is should not be restricted to your party members. If you wish to be a kind and giving player, you may heal randoms. I don't see how that is a big deal since chances are you are doing a similar task and would benefit from grouping up anyways. The only trouble I see is stacking healers on an open world boss but I believe iamallama is implementing some sort of a personalized area or instance for groups to do boss raids. I might be wrong though. If that was not mentioned, hey, suggestion for post-basics. This would defeat the getting as many people as possible to kill a world-boss. FO did not have healing really. FrozenSoviet had this to say about healing in FO: I definitely want healers to be more active and be more rewarded in our game, with a much much much greater variety of abilities they would receive, so it's not just spamming LYW3 while buffing TTS4 on them every 10 minutes. In addition they would have to be included in the party (thus receiving a reward of loot and xp) if you want to be healed by them. Overall, healing was no where near as beneficial as jogging around the main boss while teammates supplied a steady enfilade. My intentions to this post were to call forth the neglect healing has seen in that game and hopefully bring this to the attention of the developers so that those like me did not face the same unease. Monster --DAMAGE--> Meat Shield (another user) <--HEALING-- ME +30 xp +45 xp +60xp(easily abused)I felt my illustration was far more than sufficient to demonstrate the ease of abuse your idea would bring forth. I will gladly run through exactly how I would abuse it though. Do not get me wrong, I do not condone the use of cheating or exploitation to get an advantage on others. However, I do not condemn the "Clever usage of game mechanics." I am merely saying you are setting the plate for more than an innovative experience gain. I would start by leveling my main character to a more than a comfortable level with decent gear. Based on how mana (or an alternative resource for casting spells) is regenerated, I would solidify the rate to more than suffice for the nonstop spells I am about to cast. With my character geared, I would create a brand new account which does not even need to be leveled and bring it to a mob that would attack at such a rate that I can heal this new account before its imminent death. The account has to attack once. Once the "in-combat" state is achieved, it would be easily to run an auto clicker on a single heal. I would like to address that you suggested deselecting your healed target. Maybe in some situations that could be useful, you are plaguing the users who would not do as I am suggesting. Despite that minor setback, I would just have a program move between the party frame (or character if the frame is not present) and the heal. I will inform you right now that neither of these theoretical accounts has to move. With my oh-so-simple plan, I have successfully described how to achieve max level with little to no work. Now if you feel you have to heal every player you see training, be my guest. You didn't get experience in FO for doing that and I don't see why that would change. I don't believe anybody just went around healing anyways. Buffing, yes. I mean honestly, if you want me to help you, you can just ask and if I am not busy, I will gladly aid you in overcoming a task. iamallama has the right idea by saying I was meaning that if in a group, that is how the exp would most likely be distributed. They could always of course brave it alone. simply hand a healer a damaging spell or 2 equivalent of a DPS's spell so they could coast through the leveling process. Unless the game is loaded chock-full of with simple damaging spells, I do not see the issue with a healer having this as a utility for their own purpose.
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Acappella
Rock Crab
Level 120
Posts: 83
FO Level Status: Ascended
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Post by Acappella on Mar 26, 2014 8:21:25 GMT
Auto clickers are avoidable in your suggested method, You assume that the mob/boss stand still, even if targeted. If the boss moves would you stay still? If you move do you stay targeted? You seem to assume that once you click on target it stays targeted, will we even need to click on target? I'm assuming there would be quicker ways to get xp! "Cool downs" (for healing spell that work outside of party), could mean that by the time you've healed again you're "main" character would be now dead, and if he doesn't need healing(because you're geared/made that way), then the spell isn't successful, thus no xp gained.
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Post by iamallama on Mar 26, 2014 16:47:48 GMT
Ok, I think this has run a little wild so I'll reign it in. Will healers have a viable role? It is hard to say because we haven't started making the classes/skills system. We have talked about them, but until we have something playable it is hard to tell whether it is going to work or is even fun. What I will say is that we will do our best to give them a role.
Second, there will be no exp for casting. The only way to make this work is to make the amount of exp you gain so small that it is not worth it to exploit. And even that wouldn't help because people would still try. Healers will only get exp from a kill. Any other system will just add too much complication. How would this work out:
A healer is in a group with another player. They heal the meat shield while he kills the monsters.
So lets say that the healer gets a small portion of exp from each heal. When a monster dies, do they get exp from the kill also? Is it fair that they would end up getting more exp than the meat shield (kill + healing)? If they don't get exp from the kill, then what happens if the healer attacks the monster once? Does that now constitute damage enough to get exp from the kill? Or are healers just always banned from getting exp from a kill? What about healing yourself? Why even bother using another player to game the system when you can just heal yourself and get exp. Chances are that you would end up getting more because you take more damage (typically healers have lower defense) and so can heal for more.
If we just say that you have to be apart of a group in order to get the exp, then it is sooo much more simple.
Lastly, I'm not worried about bots. They won't be allowed, but if you think that un-targeting after you cast or having the boss move is going to fix anything, then you probably don't know how easy it is to make a bot. If you can make a bot that can initiate an attack sequence, then making it follow is just as easy.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2014 20:02:30 GMT
*cough* Tab targetting. *cough*
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