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Post by mvp on Mar 25, 2014 18:01:15 GMT
Ok if I get XP for healing my party members then I am going to sit there and let one of my friends continually get hit from a monster until I ding level cap. You probably think I wouldn't do it cause what about leveling my friend? well forget him, I am going to max out then we can go back for him. Your system is so easily abused its not even remotely possible.
Give healers decent offensive abilities. Nothing too strong that they will be using them in combat but something that can drive a healer through the leveling process. I'm not saying turn them into the next mage, but give them something that will allow them to slowly stagger throughout the game.
As for the party / xp thing, just give every member of the party a little xp whether or not they attack the monster. This way a healer can heal the group without worrying about getting a small bit of xp. Take the Laissez faire approach to the parties. I'm sure it will all work out and revision can happen in the future.
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HellsMercy
Soft-Shelled Crab
I'm always set as AFK. Old habit I picked up from a good man I knew long ago.
Posts: 18 
FO Level Status: AFK
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Post by HellsMercy on Mar 25, 2014 18:06:54 GMT
Perhaps experience could be given by healing if damage is actually being done to an enemy to make sure that there is actually combat constantly going rather than abusing a system in that way? I agree that healers should have some kind of attack and that it needs to be noticeably less than other classes. Healers should have the worst dps in the game, but you are right, they need something. In my opinion, I would not like to see a finished game not have a specified healer role, because then all other classes would be able to heal too, or absolutely no one is able to heal. Both of these wouldn't make sense.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2014 18:13:19 GMT
If there will be elements/weakness in this game, why not making healers like in most of other MMOs? With light attacks, and an other class with dark attacks.
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Post by mvp on Mar 25, 2014 18:40:54 GMT
Perhaps experience could be given by healing if damage is actually being done to an enemy to make sure that there is actually combat constantly going rather than abusing a system in that way? I agree that healers should have some kind of attack and that it needs to be noticeably less than other classes. Healers should have the worst dps in the game, but you are right, they need something. In my opinion, I would not like to see a finished game not have a specified healer role, because then all other classes would be able to heal too, or absolutely no one is able to heal. Both of these wouldn't make sense. Monster --DAMAGE--> Meat Shield (another user) <--HEALING-- ME +30 xp +45 xp +60xp(easily abused)I just love playing a support role. Whether its TF2, WoW, LoL, KOL, hell even in BF3 I have always played right wing to the people doing the heavy damage. I enjoy my position there. Its a hard formula to figure out but I think its something that needs to be added to this game. Otherwise, its all just DPS and that gets boring. I want to have fights that require a tank, good dps, and most of all, skilled healers! |
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Acappella
Rock Crab
Level 120
Posts: 83
FO Level Status: Ascended
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Post by Acappella on Mar 25, 2014 19:23:20 GMT
Perhaps experience could be given by healing if damage is actually being done to an enemy to make sure that there is actually combat constantly going rather than abusing a system in that way? I agree that healers should have some kind of attack and that it needs to be noticeably less than other classes. Healers should have the worst dps in the game, but you are right, they need something. In my opinion, I would not like to see a finished game not have a specified healer role, because then all other classes would be able to heal too, or absolutely no one is able to heal. Both of these wouldn't make sense. Monster --DAMAGE--> Meat Shield (another user) <--HEALING-- ME +30 xp +45 xp +60xp(easily abused) It can't be "easily" abused.... Firstly you need another player, that will attack different mobs, whilst you heal. Healing might not be spam like it was in FO, ie you may need to be facing the other player, not just clicked on them. (So many variables could be added to limit or stop botters.) Secondly you need to heal, just because you can heal someone, doesn't mean you can spam heal! (cool down or such like.) Thirdly if they don't need healing you won't get xp. Does the healer have to be grouped? no. The xp gained from heal might not be large enough to exactly grind xp from. The gains could be done in various ways, to open up other spells in the "tree" is just another example. Also this is a great discussion and could lead to many things coming from the stuff that flies around. Nobody should be just saying no, just encourage the brain storm! |
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HellsMercy
Soft-Shelled Crab
I'm always set as AFK. Old habit I picked up from a good man I knew long ago.
Posts: 18
FO Level Status: AFK
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Post by HellsMercy on Mar 25, 2014 19:26:08 GMT
One problem is that if healers don't have to be grouped then we'll have a bunch of problems where bosses won't have any skill or anything to them, you have have dozens of healers healing you while you take on a boss... Where's the game in that? Healers have to have some kind of parameter to follow other wise non-healers can abuse that.
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Post by iamallama on Mar 25, 2014 19:26:08 GMT
You would most likely get exp from being in a party regardless of whether you attacked the monster. The exp would be rewarded at kill time and you would receive if you were within a certain proximity of the monster (to prevent someone being back in town and in a group collecting exp).
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HellsMercy
Soft-Shelled Crab
I'm always set as AFK. Old habit I picked up from a good man I knew long ago.
Posts: 18
FO Level Status: AFK
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Post by HellsMercy on Mar 25, 2014 19:30:11 GMT
So healers would ONLY get experience from working in groups? Sounds possible, kind of fair too, the only problem is that healers would HAVE to find groups to work with, but then again, it's a support class and what it is designed for. Maybe we're going a bit further than we need to, at least in some aspects.
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Acappella
Rock Crab
Level 120
Posts: 83
FO Level Status: Ascended
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Post by Acappella on Mar 25, 2014 19:37:50 GMT
One problem is that if healers don't have to be grouped then we'll have a bunch of problems where bosses won't have any skill or anything to them, you have have dozens of healers healing you while you take on a boss... Where's the game in that? Healers have to have some kind of parameter to follow other wise non-healers can abuse that. Dozens! trying to get that many healers together wasn't exactly that easy in FO. Anyway I just like the idea that if I was walking past a battle of some kind I could just give a helping heal as I walked by just like some used to do in FO. This makes a friendly environment which was nice in FO. Rather than feeling like I must heal because I'm a healer and must group with people. |
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HellsMercy
Soft-Shelled Crab
I'm always set as AFK. Old habit I picked up from a good man I knew long ago.
Posts: 18
FO Level Status: AFK
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Post by HellsMercy on Mar 25, 2014 19:41:01 GMT
I was using dozens as just an example possibility, obviously it wasn't an easy task, but it was a possible one. Perhaps there could be a limit of how many healers out of battle at once maybe?
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Post by minche on Mar 25, 2014 21:13:01 GMT
Monster --DAMAGE--> Meat Shield (another user) <--HEALING-- ME +30 xp +45 xp +60xp(easily abused) It can't be "easily" abused.... Firstly you need another player, that will attack different mobs, whilst you heal. Healing might not be spam like it was in FO, ie you may need to be facing the other player, not just clicked on them. (So many variables could be added to limit or stop botters.) Secondly you need to heal, just because you can heal someone, doesn't mean you can spam heal! (cool down or such like.) Thirdly if they don't need healing you won't get xp. Does the healer have to be grouped? no. The xp gained from heal might not be large enough to exactly grind xp from. The gains could be done in various ways, to open up other spells in the "tree" is just another example. Also this is a great discussion and could lead to many things coming from the stuff that flies around. Nobody should be just saying no, just encourage the brain storm! as mvp and I said you could just group with someone and basically run a bot with healing attacks... and other suggestions are too hard to implement or too confusing... and as I try to explain, you should have difficult monsters that are great to grind but that can basically 1 hit a lot of players so that you need healers. if a majority of players risks almost certain death they will then have to consider bringing healer to the group, and a lot of the players should decide to bump their survivability (health and healing skill) instead of damage so that they don't lose as much xp dying. so it's not the point if healers have smaller damage output compared to glass cannons if there's no need for healers in the game. you need to design monsters with powerful attacks against everyone (except players with the bestest of gear), and make it so that death sets you back in the game so that it is needed, and not just optional and a source of rage/rbbl. |
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Post by iamallama on Mar 25, 2014 23:27:35 GMT
I was meaning that if in a group, that is how the exp would most likely be distributed. They could always of course brave it alone.
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Post by mvp on Mar 25, 2014 23:47:16 GMT
I was meaning that if in a group, that is how the exp would most likely be distributed. They could always of course brave it alone. That's how it should be. Lets not complicate things and open up possibilities for exploitation. If you're in a group, get XP for being in there (as long as you are within the specified range and you said earlier). |
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Acappella
Rock Crab
Level 120
Posts: 83
FO Level Status: Ascended
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Post by Acappella on Mar 26, 2014 7:04:59 GMT
If a mob can 1 hit you, then you die, unless you are saying a healer can bring you back to life minche ?!?
I just think that being able to heal anyone was a really nice thing in FO, it made the place friendly.
How can it be hard! FO did healing not in a group!
If you cast heal on someone that needs it you get a tiny bit of xp. To avoid exploiting/botting as soon as you've cast heal, it deselects the person. Now if that person moves then the bot would have to follow them and reselect.
Its not difficult!
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Post by minche on Mar 26, 2014 7:43:22 GMT
no, I'm saying unless you decide to spec in life or enough defence and regen so that it doesn't 1 hit you  (1 hit is just an example for say bosses and stuff, for regular mobs it should most likely be that they deal more damage than 'average' regen or something like that) yeah and that was wrong, healers got nothing. now you will need to have healers in group and they will get xp by being in a group. |
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