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Post by mvp on Mar 23, 2014 23:24:35 GMT
I haven't seen this covered as much as overall combat and just the overviewed thought of classes which haven't actually been announced yet. My question is pertaining to healing. In FO (I hate to reference it) healing was more of a.. "it existed" kind of thing. The main role of a healer wasn't actually that interactive. Maybe this was due to the bland combat.
To get straight to the question, will there be healing (or a healing class), will it be interactive, will it make me think? Or will it be a buff I set on a character and walk away for the rest of the fight?
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Post by FrozenSoviet on Mar 23, 2014 23:39:57 GMT
The reason healing wasn't popular in FO was because there was no real reward for it. Healers weren't inside the party of 3 killing a boss, and as a result they received no loot, no xp, etc, for spamming the healing skill for 10-40 minutes. As a result, there weren't really any healers outside of friendly people you know that would occasionally help you out on a boss.
I definitely want healers to be more active and be more rewarded in our game, with a much much much greater variety of abilities they would receive, so it's not just spamming LYW3 while buffing TTS4 on them every 10 minutes. In addition they would have to be included in the party (thus receiving a reward of loot and xp) if you want to be healed by them.
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Acappella
Rock Crab
Level 120
Posts: 83
FO Level Status: Ascended
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Post by Acappella on Mar 24, 2014 13:18:46 GMT
An other way would be to reward xp for a successful heal, ie they can heal whoever they want so long as the recipient doesn't have full health. The same could work for other mechanics like fixing broken weapons/armour etc.
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Post by Archangel on Mar 24, 2014 14:26:54 GMT
Problem was that EVERYONE had healing. There wasn't a specific need for them in general as a specialty. For example, mages should have higher healing than a warrior, who traditionally is the "brute fighter, cares less about healing". The problem for FO was that since anyone could heal and use the same high level healing spells, there wasn't a need for specific class for them nor was there a need for classes to rely on others for it either. Not to mention the fact you could use other people for healing outside of your own party, mumble grumble.
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Post by minche on Mar 24, 2014 14:43:17 GMT
but would you really need a class that is purely support? I mean thats not very common in MMORPGs, because those classes are really hard to lvl, and are only useful in groups. You need to find a ways to balance it with class power too, and find a way to properly scale it (so that the heal is not completely useless or OP at endgame). for healers to be properly utilised you need to find a way to decrease survivability, so that it's worth it to sacrifice your dps for heal (via skills, buffs or skill tree). so yeah, need to find a nice balance between dps and heal, and with monster's health/defence and attack to make it viable (and useful) for people to actually spec into heal instead of dps, and to allow it to be more than a pure support class.
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Post by Archangel on Mar 24, 2014 14:59:50 GMT
Oh yes, I didn't mean that they had to have a whole class for specifically healing just for healing, because no one would do that.
Think along the lines of RPG games. Usually in a lot of those games the healer is more of a healer/spell casting damage person. They have low health (so they need to be protected) and low physical damage and defense but high magical damage and super high mana/mp/etc and magic defense.
Which is why I said if you're going to add a "mage" class to the game you could think of doing something like that. You could have a heal/damage "mage" or a full out "damage" mage. I just don't want to see the strength dudes being able to pull off some insane healing or have the same healing as a mage.
Bottom line is enemies should be harder to make it so that healing should be used in general. I don't think outside forces should be able to interact with people killing a boss. And I don't think there should be a "cast it and walk away" spell either. You should have to be focused the entire boss fight and healing.
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Post by ApathyBear on Mar 24, 2014 17:32:37 GMT
I fully agree. I, personally, don't mind playing support. While that's easy in instance fight games like DOTA and LOL, it,s quite difficult to pull it off successfully in an RPG, which is likely why it's handed over so easily to the generic mage class. Levelling a 'heal'-type mage would be near impossible for obvious reasons, and developers attempt to make up for it with heavy hitting spells. This creates OP mages, and nobody likes that. I think, in this example, a 'path' development would suffice as opposed to a select-a-class beginning menu, so people are either heal-damage split or all damage, but definitely not all-heal.
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Post by minche on Mar 24, 2014 18:32:13 GMT
yeah but also what i meant is that game (monsters) need to be difficult enough to justify healers, but not too hard so that you can't survive without a healer. I'm sure skill tree and skill will allow for glass cannon builds as well as tanks and healers, so you need to design it so that all 3 of those 'extreme' builds can progress through game at the same pace (or close enough).
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Acappella
Rock Crab
Level 120
Posts: 83
FO Level Status: Ascended
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Post by Acappella on Mar 25, 2014 13:10:42 GMT
yeah but also what i meant is that game (monsters) need to be difficult enough to justify healers, but not too hard so that you can't survive without a healer. I'm sure skill tree and skill will allow for glass cannon builds as well as tanks and healers, so you need to design it so that all 3 of those 'extreme' builds can progress through game at the same pace (or close enough). As you talk about skill trees then, if xp could be gained from healing another person, partied or not, then the tree could unlock better attack spells. Thus for being a healer you gain good attack spells, perhaps even better attack spells than if you were just following the attack line of the tree ?
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Post by minche on Mar 25, 2014 13:22:26 GMT
I dont understand the second part... why would you be a healer and have the best attack skills? also for the first part, I don't think I've ever seen something like that, and not sure how it would work and how you would scale it. sure you could make some formulas but it could end up just being afk grinding, basically getting xp for standing around, not to mention how easy it would be to bot (just group with someone and time the heals, and return after couple of hours)
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2014 14:48:31 GMT
In Vandal Hearts (it's a tactical RPG), you get XP by even using an herb on yourself or an ally. That's what he means I think.
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Post by ApathyBear on Mar 25, 2014 15:05:37 GMT
I can actually see that working, gaining XP for healing. Say we come across an enemy, and there are two mages in a party. One mage who's damage-built takes on the enemy, and the other damage-heal mage heals the first mage. Assuming this is a perfect world where everything works out, both mages would gain the same amount of XP (and I'm not talking party XP, that's another matter for another thread), for the first mage kills the 1000 HP enemy and the other heals for 1000HP. So mages would have two sour es of XP (one for healing, the other for killing enemies). This is also assuming you can't heal and fight at the same time... ughghgh too many variables.
Basically, a person who's healing shouldn't be able to attack, and with this, can earn the same amount of XP as someone who does, giving them a complicated but doable method for levelling.
Crab. I'm just rambling, now. Hopefully someone else can put it into better words than I can.
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Post by minche on Mar 25, 2014 15:10:06 GMT
yeah but if the person who's healing can't deal enough damage then they could only lvl when in party via healing xp, which i still think is a silly idea tbh
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Post by ApathyBear on Mar 25, 2014 17:04:44 GMT
That... makes sense. Darn it. I thought I was onto something.
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HellsMercy
Soft-Shelled Crab
I'm always set as AFK. Old habit I picked up from a good man I knew long ago.
Posts: 18
FO Level Status: AFK
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Post by HellsMercy on Mar 25, 2014 17:35:21 GMT
I think having an option there would be nice. It would be a real change of pace. I personally would try it, might be fun if done right. But I probably am the minority thinking that.
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